coyote / fox snares or traps

[Ron Chafe]

 I would like to add a discussion to see how everyone feels about having to identify if there are traps or snares in a particular area. This seems to be a major problem this year as I am after hearing of at least 10 beagles getting caught in these coyote snares this year while out rabbit hunting. It would be great if trappers would post a sign in the area warning rabbit hunters of the presence of traps / snares. This actually happened to my dog just yesterday and it was just pure luck that I found my dog in time before it was too late. Im sure it must be heartbreaking to lose a dog this way and it would probably be just as sad for a trapper to find a beagle in his trap. This problem seems to be increasing dramatically in areas such as long harbour, sunnyside, southern shore, cochrane pond rd. to mention a few and I think it is time we start to work together on this issue. Any ideas?

[Peter Emberley]

I  think  putting out snares on Cochrane Pond Rd is inviting trouble. Surely the trappers know that hundreds of people rabbit hunt in by Bay Bulls Big Pond, Cochrane Pond Rd and Northern Pond Road. Trappers should at the very least let other hunters know if traps and snares are in an area.

 Why would someone set traps and snares in an area that has rabbit hunters their every day. B'ys thats stupid. I can see a big flare up over this. I have to admit, I would not be happy if I lost my dog to a snare or trap. At least if I know there are traps and  snares in the area I can move on somewhere else.

  I can see a fight happen in the woods over this. I hope it don't come to that because no one wins that way.

 

 

 

 

[Billy Guest]

I do agree that trappers should have some type of signage when traps/snares are being used. However, They have every right to be in the woods as everybody else, regardless their method of hunting. I live in the Goulds, and hunt all the areas mentioned above, and alot that aren't.

 Anyone who uses dogs to hunt game, whether it be rabbits or birds, is always putting their dog at risk of injury, sometimes worse. I'm no trapper, but if many people frequent a certain area hunting on a daily basis, there's usually a reason for it.. and that reason is normally good hunting!! So whether it be setting rabbit/grouse snares, or coyote/fox snares, where there is game, other game and bigger game will occupy that same area.  Therefore the reason why trappers set slips/traps in those areas. The "back" of the Goulds is full of foxes and quite a few coyotes, let alone other furbearers. It's a good spot for trapping. As said, I agree with the use of some form of signage for traps/larger snares.

But, as well know, and I know from experience (having rabbits taken from me for example), some "hunters" love to see red tape or "signs" indicating the location of snares. That equals an easy catch for them. Now I understand that no one wants to lose a dog in the woods, especially in this manner, its a bad injury or hard death. But it is public land for the most part and it's there for everyones enjoyment. Unfortunately, sometimes we have to take it in strides and conflicts like this do arise.

[Peter Emberley]

Everything you say is true.

If hunters and trial runners start to lose dogs there will be trouble. I can see it brewing. I think signs are the best answer. You can say we all have a right, and we do.

Wait untill a champion or 2 is sneared. I think it will eventually come to a head, most things do.

[Desmond Canning]

It sure is a problem out here on the avalon. I am a trapper and have ran a trapline for a number of years in Central NL. I have never had to worry about dogs on my trapline. However i notice as i scouted out areas on the avalon that there were many areas where i seen people hunting with dogs.

First of all everyone has a right to use the land to hunt, trap and fish its a God given right. But there are two sides to this story.

 

As a trapper i am aware that when people know you have traps or snares in a area they like to tamper with them. Sadly i think every trapper has had this happen to them. So i think that when you post a sign that there are traps or snares in a area it may cause some problems to the trapper.

I also own a beagle myself but i do not use it for rabbit hunting. He has been a good companion and i certainly would not want to loose him in a snare. As well for those who hunt with beagles i am sure that you would not want to loose a dog to snares.

I do offer a couple of ideas however. If  you are snaring conceal your snares and make signs to mark the area. No need to place it close to where your snare is just as long as you have it in main access areas used by rabbit hunters. I am sure that rabbit hunters wanting to ensure the safety of their dogs would stay away from that area.

Using traps is much more costly then snares and require more maintenance. Personally i have never tried setting traps for fox and have stuck to using snares. Its just an easier way to go. But the traps which are legal today are much different from the steel teethed traps of yesteryear. They have padded jaws and do not harm the animal. Personally i would much rather for my dog to end up in trap then a snare. As well as for the trap they are requires to be checked daily and if an animal is caught it should be released in a short period. Traps are also easier to conceal and may be of some advantage.

I think the best thing is that trappers respect the hunters by placing signs and be careful as too where you put your snares. For the hunters respect the trappers traps and snares. They do not wish to capture your dog. There is no need for any conflict. We just need to use common sense and understand that we both just want to enjoy the outdoors which to each one if us is our right.

[Fred Woodman]

I have been on both sides of this agument. Have owned dogs my own life and I have trapped for many years.I have caught dogs in snares and have had my dogs caught in snares. Fortunately all were released no worst for the wear.

For the most part marking areas that hold traps will not work as people with dogs will not avoid those areas. And trappers wont want to have gear stolen.

 

On the avalon rest assured that there are traps and or snares within a mile of every road or trail that a truck or atv can travel. And it has always been that way.

 

The reality is that this is not new. A post above mentions Long Hr road , I can tell you now theres a fox snare on EVERY trail, foot path etcMaybe 5or 6

.I bet dollars to donuts that from Sunnyside to St Johns there is a fox coyote snare within a mile of of TCH, railway bed and every road and ATV for every mile of road. There are thousands. ( in the early eighties I myself would have close to a hundred out at this time of year.)

And there has been for 30 years. Are rabbit hunters going to give up that area for hunting with dogs, they havent for past 30 and wont now with or without signs.

For the most part dogs will not get caught in the leg holds. Nor do they fight the snares enough to choke out. In my time in that area I have yet to hear of a dog actually dying in a snare. For the most part hunters locate the dog easily.As snares are almost always in trails and foot paths.

couple of things to remember if your hunting with dogs

1. There is at least one snare( maybe 5 or 6) in almost every foot path/trail thats within a mile of the road or railway bed.Rest assured right now there are thousands of snares set up on the avalon right now. ( end Nov) 

 

2.Most dogs will not fight a fox/ coyote enough to choke themselves out > If you find your dog is missing, search for trail and foot paths in area where you last heard / saw him.

3. Listen..lots of times you will hear your dog barking if in a snare. Remember any and all game trails foot paths you see while hunting.

4. As more and more people do trapping courses and as coyotes become more the target of hunters/trappers even more snares will go out. They are cheap and can be set quickly.

 

I dont know what the answer is but trappers will not be marking traps as it will be the quickest way to have them stolen. It would be a good idea for an open dialog to happen between trappers ( Assoc) and maybe NWF??

[Peter Emberley]

I agree with you and Fred. If they are marked where they are put, some idiot will mess with it or steel it. Sad but true, not all outdoors people are like this but we have our fare share of idiots. Both you guys have dogs, 1 is a hunter and a family member the other a family member. My beagle is both to me as well, a great hunting buddy and family member. When I go through the door she is with me no matter where I go. It would kill  me if I lost her to a snare. I don't know what the answer is, but having a heads up that something is in the area would be agreat start.

[albert linegar]

  All that I have seen here are good points and I didn't see anything that I don't agree with, however the fact is that if one trapper moves into an area to set snares/traps for fox/coyotes a sign will indeed let hunters know they are there.The problem is that one trapper can then spoil a good rabbit hunting area for perhaps dozens of rabbit hunters. I don't see this as being fair nor is it fair to say to a trapper you can't set traps/snares  here because we are hunting rabbits.
  As we know coyote season is open for about nine months of the year and [as far as I am concerned ] it should never close. In areas where there is a lot of rabbit hunting going on then in those areas while rabbit season is " closed " perhaps , these areas could be heavily trapped for coyotes. Not only would this prevent our hunting dogs from getting caught in the snares/traps but would also increase rabbit populations for us hunters by reducing coyote numbers and also reduce the risk of coyote attacks on our dogs.
   During open season for rabbits maybe the snares could be moved farther inland to be accessed by snowmobile and ATVs. " DID I HEAR SOMEONE MENTION AN ATV FEDERATION " to build new trails"  or seasons could be set up by mutual agreement , with input from trappers and rabbit hunters alike to designate certain areas for [ one or the other] during rabbit hunting season.
   There is one thing that is certain from my point of view , such as it is, that with coyotes now on the Island we as rabbit hunters will "indeed" need trappers to keep  rabbit numbers up and coyote numbers down.There is no riffle that can do as much damage to coyote populations as a trap line since they hunt 24/7. I think this would be a great benefit to all of us.If anyone has any other ideas " LETS HEAR THEM ".  GUYS WE NEED TO COME TOGETHER ON THIS.
               
           Albert.

[Fred Woodman]

I think we need to fully understand how for the most part trapping works particularly on the avalon. This is not the case for all trappers but for anyone who is seriously trapping this is how for the most part its done.

 

The avalon doesnt hold a lot of fur, probably more trappers than pelts.I have often seen 4 or 5 traps on a single brook for mink. All within a couple hundred yards of the road. Most people drive from one trap to the next via truck or ATV sometimes boat. The key is covering ground. The avalon is ideal because theres loads of roads and you need never back track.Southern shore, Witless bay line, Colinet, villa marie Argentia road, not to mention the railway bed.

when I trapped mink my line ran for over 200 kms. My only back track was Blaketown to New Hr or 12 kms. I was checking over 200 mink traps a day, plus fox traps and snares. Thats an average of a trap or snare in less than every KM. This was before coyotes.Over the years I had 3 instances with dogs where the dog was still in the snare when I arrived.Dozens of times the dog was removed by owner.. None were dead.My experience is that dogs will not fight snares hard enough to choke out. Typically they hardly even tear up the set site.And if not found by the hunter was either  was waiting patiently when I checked the snares.

As a trapper you will routinely lose traps, snares and animals to thieves.90 out of 100 people on the avalon if they encounter an animal in a snare or trap will take it. I have had numerous foxes shot while in the trap by  hunters  then taken( moose hunters are the worst).Nothing like a 5 yd shot at a fox in a trap to test marksmanship!!!. And I always checked my fox traps every day.

as hunters with dogs there is no need for traps and snares to be marked. Rest assured the if you are within a mile of a road, railway bed,or ATV trail then there are snares , and traps all around you. If you are walking in a foot path theres a snare in it.

The two biggest enemies to trappers are thieves.And traps or snares put out of commission . You cant catch a fox in a snare thats been knocked down.And checking a set only to find your animal has been stolen will give you a knot in your stomach.Its crushing.

Dogs,hunters and trappers have co existed for hundreds of years and for most part the problem is no worst now the it was then.I have hunted my whole life and trapped a large part of it and I have yet to hear of a dead beagle in a fox snare. Actually more beagle are probably lost to rabbit snares. ( rabbit snares and rabbit dogs now thats age old debate.)

Recently theres be a rush on trapping licenses via the course and its driven largely by "Coyote fever"

the course itself dont teach how to trap in high traffic areas like the avalon but anyone who traps long enough will learn to keep his gear working in those areas.And a dog in a snare is as big a pain for the trapper as it is for the dog and owner.

you can never avoid those incidental catches but there are lots to be done to minimize it by both hunter and trapper.

For the hunter, keep in mind the trapper traps where you hunt, foxes eat the same rabbits the dog owner want to shoot. Tearing up a set site on a trapper in an area holding foxes, will have the trapper doubling or tripling the number of snares. The season is short and having "working" snares is critical.

 

Good Luck

[albert linegar]

  Since  trapping and rabbit hunting seasons are open on the Island at the same time making it impossible to do what I suggested above as the seasons no stand. Under the circumstances heavily hunted areas like the Avalon where many hunters hunt rabbits with dogs maybe those regulations/ seasons  could be changed.

                   Albert.

[Ron Chafe]

I think you are right on with this reply Desmond. Trappers should just mark the main access areas and there is no need to mark the exact location of the snares or traps. I'm pretty sure that's all rabbit hunters are expecting. I did come across this in the Witless bay area and I immediately put my dog on the leash and tried somewhere else for a rabbit. If the person who has the coyote snares in the Witless Bay area reads this I would like to thank him personally for doing so. Anyone who continues to hunt in an area with beagles where a trap or snare has been identified or the area has been marked warning of such traps in my opinion dont have any respect for the trapper or his own dog. This identifying where traps are located in my opinion should reduce rabbit hunters tampering with traps by keeping them out of the area. I can assure you that if Im in an area that wasn't identified with having coyote snares and my dogs have a rabbit on the run and I come across one or more of these snares I will be closing them up until my dogs are on the leash. I'm sure alot of other rabbit hunters would feel the same way.

[tyler pitcher]

I have traped quite a few years now I run traps from Hr Grace right to Thorborn Lake down pass Clarenville also in around ST.Johns and down Pass Swiftcurrent ...I have out at one time at least 250 fox and coyote slips out ...For me their is relly no way to mark the slips  because the slips are everwere their is a foot path....I have alot of trouble with my gear between people takeing slips ,shooting foxes and takeing animals...I could only imagine how much trouble i would have if i mark my slips....I"ve have a few dogs but all were fine no dead dogs!!! I have a dog my self and dont want nothing to happen to her but she have ben in a few coyote slips but she is still going strong...

[Kim brinson]

I believe we had this conversation before John....